LGBT vs The Church

I engage with Christians every day who wrestle with scripture, trying to justify being LGBT with their faith. I’m constantly confronted by traditional and fundamentalist Christians as well as many from the “grace” movements, convinced that being gay is sin and it’s all to do with how we wrestle with and treat that sin. Many are genuine, loving and concerned people. Others are, well, not so loving. This constant barrage of how to treat the sin fails to recognise the effect of the whole issue on LGBT people. We are the ones being discussed. We are the ones being told that we are sinful, broken people needing Jesus saving grace, just like murderers and paedophiles and addicts etc. We are the subject of judgement by those who have no idea what its actually like.Anti_gay_San_Francisco But hardly any Christians fail to look at two key points. Firstly, it’s not just “gay or not gay”. There is an incredible lack of knowledge when it comes to understanding what sexuality and gender really is. They keep trying to force everything into a heteronormative paradigm that flies in the face of all the science and psychology, to say nothing of the personal experiences of millions of LGBT people, claiming that the bible is the foundation for their knowledge, despite the fact that the bible’s track record on scientific accuracy leaves a lot to be desired (astronomy, geography, physics, etc), as well as human rights (slavery, racism, misogyny, etc). Here’s the truth. Sexuality and gender are psychological attributes, defined by a continuum of expression and identity. Even our physical bodies can be ambiguous with varying amounts of hormones determining a huge range of gender identification. Secondly, the bible was never meant to be factual about anything. It’s a book of allegory and metaphor based on mythology and folk lore. It’s full of deep truths that have to be gleaned from the cultural morass of the societies that wrote it. Christians can argue how to deal with the “sin” till the cows come home, but until we realise that our sexuality or gender has nothing to do with sin in any way, we are fighting a losing battle. Our belief in the personification of God through Jesus, and all that entails, has zero to do with who we love and how we feel about our gender! Being outside the heterosexual norm IS NOT A SIN. It’s that simple. Our morality is a whole different issue and if we chose to live a lifestyle that is unloving and damaging to others then sure, address that as you would with anyone. Religion is our worst enemy. It stereotypes, shames, demonises, patronises and calls good bad and evil good. If by some miracle you can hold to your belief system through the abuse, all well and good. But most LGBT people in the church are like abused wives who keep going back to their abuser who promises so much but never delivers, only to deal out more abuse. You are not sinful. You are not broken. You are loved – live loved!  


  • Mike Reply

    Wow… This is so wrong on so many levels, I don’t know where to begin. So I’ll take on the easiest topic.

    Let’s start here. Human being are sinful by nature, you, me, everyone Christian and Atheist alike. Scripture talks quite a bit on sexual immorality homosexual behavior being included. Sexual relations outside the confines of what God prescribes as marriage is sin. God tells about behavior, not so much people. God does love all people, but detests all sin. Like the boy and girl not married, living together having sexual relations is sin…2 men or 2 women living together having sexual relations are sin. Since in God’s eyes marriage is the covenant relationship between 1 man and 1 woman, there is no marriage relationship, therefore all sexual relations between members of the same gender is sin.

    When we are saved, born again, come to Christ (however we label it), we have the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit, which transforms us from the creatures we were, to what God wants us to be. Romans 12:1-2.

    How to handle Sin?? At least within the Church, that is outlined clearly in Matthew 18.

    • Dave4445 Reply

      You’ve illustrated well how heterosexuals have also been condemned by fundamentalists claiming to know god’s will for everyone. As a society, we have largely abandoned this condemnation of premarital sex years ago, the outdated and uninformed ‘morals’ of our grandparents, but homosexuals and others are still fighting the stigma coming from religious fascism.

      You folks cherry pick to condemn behavior you want to judge. If you didn’t, you would insist that rapists marry their victims and you’d be fighting for the right to have multiple wives, as the Bible says. There are plenty of Christians who do not interpret the Bible as the inerrant word of their god and leave the judging for the Almighty and secular rule of law, you do not have a monopoly on Christianity.

    • silentgays Reply

      Thanks for your comment Mike, although I’m very familiar with your views. I think I’d be wasting my time trying to debate with you about them however.
      I could refute any argument you may put forward, but your fundamentalist paradigm probably won’t allow you to even consider the possibility of you being wrong.
      Meanwhile, LGBT people will find true life, love and freedom outside the dogma of bibliolatry and fundamentalism.
      Blessings bro!

      • silentgays

        Thanks Gimmel. Sadly the g0ys thing is just another attempt by a those locked into bibliolatry and fundamentalist views to try and reconcile who they are with a bankrupt belief system.
        Sure it works to a point and their exegesis is reasonable, but it ends up being, yet again, nothing more than their opinions about scripture.
        Good on them for trying though.
        For the rest of us, we’ve finally realised that the entire christian paradigm is irrelevant and the real journey for us is to unravel the mess so we can live life to its fullest.

  • Jessica Reply

    The fact is I am a Christian, who sins! We are all human who sin, but God loves us all the same. Whether we are gay, straight, bi, black, white, brown, etc. Yes, in the Bible it does say that it is a sin for the same genders to enage in sexual acts. It also says it is sinful to engage in sexual acts before you are married, yet people have done it since the beginning. It is also sinful to lust after someone or something, yet the world still does it. This world is so full of sin, believers and non-believers alike! I love gay people. I’m straight and a Christian, I love because God loves and I want to be like my father. God loves all his children no matter what or who they are. That is what I want ALL people to know what true Christianity is all about love, God’s love!

    • silentgays Reply

      Thanks for commenting Jessica,
      The problem that faces us is our tendency to believe our current interpretations of scripture as true and infallible has been our downfall on far too many occasions, as we are all painfully aware of with many issues of science and morality over the centuries.
      Sure our current translations imply that same sex relationships are sin, but when we do some real, scholarly exegesis we discover that it’s not the case at all. It’s a very serious issue, and until we get it sorted millions of LGBT people are going to suffer intolerably, to the point of mental illness and suicide.
      There are a lot of resources on this subject. I would suggest starting with this link as it’s very methodical and thorough. I hope it helps you to understand and see the problem for what it really is.

  • Kent Lindsay Reply

    Wow guys awesome discussion. Sin literally means missing the mark. Who or what is this mark? Might I and I believe Papa God Himself propose that this Mark is Christ in us all, the living Hope of glory? The Gospel Truth is our mutual risen ruling and reining Lord and Rescuer Jesus Christ. This Desire of the Nations is I believe through His Faith and ever faithful Holy Spirit led humble prayer love acceptance and forgiveness is bringing every tribe tinge and nation (yes even the LGBT nation) together as the One we already are !

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